Messages In This Digest (4 Messages)

1a.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350? From: brian_cirulnick
1b.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350? From: tailmaster
1c.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350? From: csburridge
1d.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350? From: thebubblepuppy2004

View All Topics | Create New Topic

Messages

1a.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350?

Posted by: "brian_cirulnick" techrat@obsolyte.com brian_cirulnick

Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:39 am (PST)

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "woodstim@..." <woodstim@...> wrote:
>
> In this economy it is hard to imagine them doing so. I heard that Suzuki may not even release some 2010 modles since there are so many hold over models that didn't sell.
>
> I think an EFI 300cc Honda with ABS would sell nicely at around $4,000
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "jjginpa" <jj.groves@> wrote:
> >
> > I currently have a 2004 Reflex 250 and was wondering if anyone has heard anything about Honda bringing back a 250 or 350 Reflex to the US?
> >
-------------

I was just at the New York International Motorcycle show, and let me tell you the economy has created chaos among motorcycle manufacturers. I know I'm coming into this conversation about a 1/2 month late, but let me give you a quick run-down of what the overall feeling is out there in the real world.

In the USA, motorcycles are not seen by the general public as common transportation, they are seen as fun weekend toys. With few people now able to afford toys, mototcycle and scooter sales are way down and dealers and manufacturers are struggling. If you intend to buy, buy now as you can get a great deal.

The show itself had maybe half of the major manufacturers represented, and even out of those who did show, they didn't display their full line of products. They are pushing their higher cost, higher profit "luxury" big bikes and/or sport bikes, which tend to sell better to the general public.

Honda has NO plans to bring over a mid-range motorcycle (around 500cc), and their scooter line is even more lopsided. 50cc (metro, ruckus), 110cc (elite), 150cc and then 600cc (Silverwing).

Unless gas hits $10 a gallon, American tastes swing towards larger bikes regardless, only a major shift in gasoline would make people consider a 250cc bike versus a 1000cc bike.

Honda recognizes that Americans want "automatic", but the bike they built for the beginner market is the DN-01 which is 680cc and looks like a spaceship. But I can see why they built it that way, because Americans want sportbike looks, but cruiser type comforts. They want something stable and comfortable on the highway.

Regardless, now that people have to live on their actual income instead of an endless stream of free credit, the market has shifted and nobody is buying anything, so everyone is struggling, and being really careful about introducing anything new into the market. An expensive mistake would be to assume that Americans will buy a 300cc scooter when there's no proof that a market for that product exists.

Back to top
Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (7)
1b.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350?

Posted by: "tailmaster" freedomfyter@yahoo.com tailmaster

Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:01 am (PST)

The North American scooter market is even more depressed than the automobile and jobs market. With a little surfing and a few phone calls, you can even find some unsold '08s. Big iron builders are hurting, too.

The SWing is an excellent machine comfortably positioned in the maxiscooter market. The DN-01 (if you're over 6' tall, that goofy little windscreen will obstruct your instrument sight line) is really in a class and a budget by itself. Honda is smart. If they had any intention to fill the gap between 150cc and 600cc, the only practical approach would be to bring in the already internationally popular Forza, first cousin to the Reflex. They must have good reason for not doing so. Maybe it's because the Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese, and others have flooded the showrooms with cheap junk.

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "jjginpa" <jj.groves@...> wrote:
>
> I currently have a 2004 Reflex 250 and was wondering if anyone has heard anything about Honda bringing back a 250 or 350 Reflex to the US?
>

Back to top
Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (7)
1c.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350?

Posted by: "csburridge" csburridge@yahoo.com csburridge

Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:56 pm (PST)

Hi Brian,

Your write up of the New York Motorcycle show sounds much like the motorcycle show I attended in Novi, MI, on the first of the month. It was a depressing show to say the least.

While I do, in fact, wish Honda would bring the newer version of the Reflex/Forza to the states, I am forced to agree with you. Who would buy it? Even if I could aford to buy a new bike, I already have a great Reflex that's perfect for me, and should I desire to get another scooter, it will most likely be a Silverwing anyway.

In the mean time, I'll keep hoping my gas guzzling Escort doesn't put me in the poor house before spring.
Ride Safe

Craig Burridge

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "brian_cirulnick" <techrat@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "woodstim@" <woodstim@> wrote:
> >
> > In this economy it is hard to imagine them doing so. I heard that Suzuki may not even release some 2010 modles since there are so many hold over models that didn't sell.
> >
> > I think an EFI 300cc Honda with ABS would sell nicely at around $4,000
> >
> > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "jjginpa" <jj.groves@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I currently have a 2004 Reflex 250 and was wondering if anyone has heard anything about Honda bringing back a 250 or 350 Reflex to the US?
> > >
> -------------
>
> I was just at the New York International Motorcycle show, and let me tell you the economy has created chaos among motorcycle manufacturers. I know I'm coming into this conversation about a 1/2 month late, but let me give you a quick run-down of what the overall feeling is out there in the real world.
>
> In the USA, motorcycles are not seen by the general public as common transportation, they are seen as fun weekend toys. With few people now able to afford toys, mototcycle and scooter sales are way down and dealers and manufacturers are struggling. If you intend to buy, buy now as you can get a great deal.
>
> The show itself had maybe half of the major manufacturers represented, and even out of those who did show, they didn't display their full line of products. They are pushing their higher cost, higher profit "luxury" big bikes and/or sport bikes, which tend to sell better to the general public.
>
> Honda has NO plans to bring over a mid-range motorcycle (around 500cc), and their scooter line is even more lopsided. 50cc (metro, ruckus), 110cc (elite), 150cc and then 600cc (Silverwing).
>
> Unless gas hits $10 a gallon, American tastes swing towards larger bikes regardless, only a major shift in gasoline would make people consider a 250cc bike versus a 1000cc bike.
>
> Honda recognizes that Americans want "automatic", but the bike they built for the beginner market is the DN-01 which is 680cc and looks like a spaceship. But I can see why they built it that way, because Americans want sportbike looks, but cruiser type comforts. They want something stable and comfortable on the highway.
>
> Regardless, now that people have to live on their actual income instead of an endless stream of free credit, the market has shifted and nobody is buying anything, so everyone is struggling, and being really careful about introducing anything new into the market. An expensive mistake would be to assume that Americans will buy a 300cc scooter when there's no proof that a market for that product exists.
>

Back to top
Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (7)
1d.: Re: Any news on new Reflex 250/350?

Posted by: "thebubblepuppy2004" bubblepuppy@dejazzd.com thebubblepuppy2004

Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:22 pm (PST)

<Maybe it's because the Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese, and
others have flooded the showrooms with cheap junk.>

This seems true. It is also true that this same market dynamic must be at work in Honda's other markets...no? I've often wondered how they can remain competitive elsewhere (using the above logic). Is it due to more lax import regulations here, or that the Italians, Aussies, etc. place a higher value in quality (clearly a significant percentage of the U.S. population does NOT). I'd be especially curious to hear from non-U.S. riders, about the state of the low-end bike market, and it's effect on the "big boys" - Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Piaggio etc. where they live.

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "tailmaster" <freedomfyter@...> wrote:
>
> The North American scooter market is even more depressed than the automobile and jobs market. With a little surfing and a few phone calls, you can even find some unsold '08s. Big iron builders are hurting, too.
>
> The SWing is an excellent machine comfortably positioned in the maxiscooter market. The DN-01 (if you're over 6' tall, that goofy little windscreen will obstruct your instrument sight line) is really in a class and a budget by itself. Honda is smart. If they had any intention to fill the gap between 150cc and 600cc, the only practical approach would be to bring in the already internationally popular Forza, first cousin to the Reflex. They must have good reason for not doing so. Maybe it's because the Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese, and others have flooded the showrooms with cheap junk.
>
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "jjginpa" <jj.groves@> wrote:
> >
> > I currently have a 2004 Reflex 250 and was wondering if anyone has heard anything about Honda bringing back a 250 or 350 Reflex to the US?
> >
>

Back to top
Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (7)